Join the original All private correspondence between a Facebook group [ADMIN] and a [GROUP MEMBER] (member since 2009, “Top Contributor,” “Visual storyteller,” “Conversation starter”), [ostensibly] “friends” [with the ADMIN since 2020].
April 2017
[ADMIN]:
Please edit your post in the Utah Filmmakers and Actors group so that it says at the very top of the post what sort of compensation your project is offering to participants. This is a group policy implemented as a courtesy to our professional members seeking paying work. Just add the following text to the top/beginning of your post and fill in the missing information: ————— •••COMPENSATION: -Role/Position: -Producer(s): -Location(s): -Shooting Date(s): -Contact: [additional info…] —————� Examples of what information should go next to each item can be found in the group description.� Thank you for abiding by our group policy and good luck with your project. -Utah Filmmakers and Actors Administration (This is a pre-written memo concerning group policy)
November 2017
[ADMIN]:
Some of your recent posts in the Utah Filmmakers and Actors group have been deleted for not adhering to group policies and/or guidelines as written in the group description and in the group’s cover image. From the group description: “Do NOT Request resumes/reels/contact info for projects NOT CURRENTLY in production (i.e. ‘future’ or ‘potential’ projects) or suggest that a job ‘could lead to additional work.’”—Utah Filmmakers and Actors If you need to hire a Director of Photography, Cinematographer or any other crew position, please us the template in the group description (and cover image) listing Payment information at the top of the post, shooting dates, etc. You should also provide a means for people to contact you directly if they’re interested in the job and not ask them to post their information in the comments. (This is a pre-written memo concerning group policy)
[MEMBER]:
I have multiple paid projects in production and this is the best means to contact us due to the volume we expect. If I have to manually post every role and position that would get very messy. It’s not like we’re a shady organization or anything. My company spends over $250k a year into the local film community by hiring crew and actors. It would be a shame for all your members to m as out.
[ADMIN]:
I can appreciate that. I’m just trying to keep job postings unambiguous and consistent. The templates are just guidelines and aren’t set in stone. There’s No need to post for every position, but posts should be limited to one project. General cast and crew calls are fine but please include information about when and where you’ll need people. “Shooting in SLC for X weeks in January,” for example. Good luck.
[MEMBER]:
Well it’s various shoots, and locations as it’s ongoing agency work.
[ADMIN]:
That’s cool. Do you have multiple units shooting concurrently or just consecutive gigs?
[MEMBER]:
Typically consecutive gigs, but sometimes we have multiple shoots going. (Hence the need for temporary crew)
[ADMIN]:
Okay. I think including some general location info and approximate shooting dates in the template will get you more useful information. If you’ve got projects booked over the next month or two in different areas, you can certainly consolidate your crew needs in a single post. I think that stating where you’ll be and when you’ll be there will make your posts more effective in finding talent that’s already close by and available and you can be as general or specific as you want as far as crew positions that need to be filled. For example: “Crew needed for commercial shoot in Weber county on (date).” “ACs and PAs needed for short film in Utah County on (date).” “Grips and Camera ops needed for corporate gig in SLC on (date).” As other projects come up, you can even have some overlap. If Weber and Utah County are in the can but you can list the SLC gig in a new post along with new projects/locatoins/dates you’ve since scheduled. I hope this is helpful and I want you to know that I’m very grateful for the professional filmmakers in our group. Good luck and if there’s anything else you need, drop me a line anytime. -[ADMIN]
[MEMBER]:
That’s not what I’m trying to do. Facebook relies too much on happenstance. I have many many people I love to work with, but I can’t remember them all. As we’re constantly in production the gigs are fluid and are ever changing. All to often I post on Facebook only to hear “dang I just saw this” from a preferred vendor after I’ve either booked another unknown person or after the shoot has been completed. I’m starting to think my request may be too sophisticated for your thread.
[ADMIN]:
I can appreciate your frustration.
The group has always been pretty inclusive, lots of hobbyists and some industry pros… with a few lifetime hobbyists who only think they’re in the industry. I find myself dividing my time between both camps. I moonlight in the industry to fund the my non-profit which has shifted its focus to helping the serious hobbyists transition from backyard weekend projects to doing professional work. Of course, I’m still figuring these things out myself. If you have any ideas or suggestions for making the group more useful, I’m all ears. Cheers.
[MEMBER]:
My only suggestion is to not delete my post, I just want to hire people and pay them. We treat everyone very well, pay top rates, and are patient and teach proper methods and theory. It sucks to have to fight just to get the word out. Should be simple.
[ADMIN]:
you got it. I'm very sorry about that.
July 2019
[ADMIN]:
Hey, [MEMBER]:. Just wanted to follow up on your recent comments in the group. Looking over our past correspondence, I see that I discussed group policies, the reasoning behind them and also requested your input on ways to improve the group as a whole. I made a conscious effort to present this information in a professional and respectful manner and did so confidentially, through direct messages and not in a public thread. In fact, when coordinating with other moderators for the group (there are 10 of us), one of the changes that we made in how we moderate content was directly inspired by your request not to delete job posts. While we still discourage posters from asking people to share contact and other information in the comments for job postings, when it does happen, instead of deleting the post, we’ll just turn off commenting and send them a memo so they can edit their post. Thank you for that input. I see nothing that remotely resembles you being “…accused of fishing for information / being a scam artist by this group's admin.” Considering my comments—in which you were tagged—about an expectation of professionalism in the group, what do you think I should do, as a group administrator, when a member of who describes themselves as “reputable” makes such a baseless accusation in a public comment, viewable to over 14,700 members? If presenting someone with a link to a resource for establishing a small business is “insulting,” how am I supposed to interpret what you’ve said about me?
[MEMBER]:
[ADMIN] I wish I had as much time as you do to over think this, but I have to be on set at 5:30am. So I’ll keep this brief. You ask for proof - but you deleted my post. You ask for open discussion, but lock threads, delete criticism and opt for private discussion to save face. You accused a sweet old lady of being illegitimate when a simple google search would reveal that she’s a major player in Utah, a mother to successful actor, and has an extensive IMBD. She’s just trying to help cast a movie, not swindle anyone or run a business. She’s done more for the local industry than you or I could ever hope to do. Look if someone is being creepy and shady then yeah handle it. But Sally is like the sweetest most gentle, genuine film advocate in the state, and you’ve pretty-much bullied her into your way of doing things. When local heavy hitters like Glen Fisk criticize you, you should take note. Creating a business entity or DBA costs like 20 bucks and any ass-hat with an internet connection can do it. It’s ridiculous to use that as a litmus test to vet the validity or authenticity of an individual - especially when it’s just a casting call, not a business. This page is a great resource, and yes it has many users - but most are hobbyists and amateurs,.. which is actually great. If you welcome the paying professionals, then we can give a lot of those less experienced users a shot at growing their skills, getting them on sets, and getting them paid to which they hopefully can build a career in the industry. If you silence or harass the professionals then they’ll leave. (I know I’m close.) Without users like Sally this community, that you’ve worked so hard to build, will become an echo chamber for amateurs and low budget / no budget gigs - which will then lead to scammers and shady producers - creating the very situation you’re trying to avoid. Make this group great for everyone, don’t chase the professionals away.
[ADMIN]:
[MEMBER]:, If your post was deleted, it’s because it didn’t follow the group guidelines. This has already been discussed. No one, to my knowledge, has accused you of fishing or being a scam artist. I certainly didn’t. I know this because if I thought you were fishing or a scam artist, I would have just removed you from the group. You’re still there. I’m a genuine admirer of the work that you’ve been involved with and except for this most recent comment, I think you’re an otherwise valuable member of the forum and I do take what you have to say—in public and in private—seriously. Turning off comments is a tool used to maintain a professional atmosphere in the group. Criticism is taken seriously. Even your accusations remain viewable and I responded to them publicly. Contacting you in private isn’t about “saving face,” it’s a professional courtesy. Providing a link to the state business entity search is also a courtesy, it is not bullying. My remarks in a separate post about creating a DBA clearly note that it’s a first step… I said nothing about it being a litmus test of validity or authenticity but it’s certainly an indicator that there’s some degree of understanding that filmmaking is a business. Organizing casting calls is also a business. Being a casting director is a profession and Sally is presenting herself as such (her own IMDb page backs this up). I rely on professionals to set the standard for interaction in the group, to be examples to the novices and hobbyists who want to transition into the industry. It’s certainly not my intention to chase anyone away but if an industry professional is conducting themselves in an unprofessional manner, I will call them out on it. If their response is to double down on that behavior to the point of stirring up others to behave in similarly unprofessional and disrespectful ways, at that point my hands are tied as an administrator and I will shut it down. Though the thread remains available for all to read so they can judge for themselves at what point it may have gone off the rails. All that being said… I’m glad you’re in the group. I appreciate your feedback and if you have any other advice that you would like to share with me in order to continue to make the group a valuable resource, please, don’t hesitate to let me know. Cheers. —[ADMIN]
July 2020
[ADMIN]:
Hey, [MEMBER]:. Would you be interested in writing a guest post for the Utah Filmmakers™ blog? 300-500 words, any film/local-film-related topic, tips, advice, etc. of your choice. Include a photo and feel free to give yourself a professional plug. We're trying to put something new up every week or so. Thanks! —[ADMIN]
[MEMBER]:
Sure! Anything you're wanting me to cover? I'm pretty slammed right now, but I could crank something out in a week or two.
[ADMIN]:
Awesome! You can write about anything that you think people need to know. The kinda stuff they don't teach in film school. Something within the next few weeks would be great. We're reaching out to a bunch of local pros.
August 2020
[ADMIN]:
Hi, [MEMBER]:. Just checkin' in. Hope you and yours are well and that you're keepin' busy.